In this episode of Social Sleuth, I sit down with Jarrett Moore to talk about his cultural observations, the weird world wide web, and get back to Social Sleuth’s roots of dissecting comedy, self-expression, and surveillance.
Jarrett Moore → is a stand-up comedian, video essayist and self-described internet tourist. His video creations feature in-depth social commentary, critique, musical elements, and tangible artistic flair.
We circle-back to Jarrett’s viral video essay’s Cultural Nihilism and the Rise of the Grifter & Military Propaganda in the Digital Age, to understand what has happened since hitting post.
Jarrett also entertains my various questions about AI, digital regulation, Canada vs US perceptions online - landing where many find themselves, in a blurred reality, or what the kids call schizo-land.
Perhaps we’re cooked.
Find Jarrett Moore‘s YouTube ← here
+ Check out His Patreon, where I may make an appearance as Kenzie from Canada.
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Full Transcript
Kenny (00:19.342)
Welcome, I’m your host Kenny, and you’re listening to Social Sleuth. Today I’m joined by Jarrett Moore, who is a stand-up comedian and video essayist. Jarrett creates in-depth topical videos covering internet culture where he offers social commentary and really creative production. Jarrett tackles many of the topics that intrigue me and my exploration of internet culture, so I invited him on Social Sleuth to do just that. Let’s get into it.
Kenny (00:48.78)
Welcome Jarrett. Thank you for coming on Social Sleuth.
Jarrett (00:51.967)
Hey, how’s it going?
Kenny (00:53.516)
Not too bad. my icebreaker is to first ask my guests how they define a meme.
Jarrett (00:58.904)
How I define a meme. I definitely think the iterative nature of it is part of the definition. How it’s like to the this image, they really carry like a lot of meaning with them. And then it it could be like a template that could be there’s like some sort of like eternal truth in the template, and then that could be applied.
Like there’s that one meme of the guy asking out the the hot guy asking out a girl at the office desk, and then it’s like, looking nice today, Dad Rush, you thank you. And then there’s kind of the fat guy underneath it, looking nice today. hello, human resources. And then just the different variations of that meme, like whatever niche, community or whatever you’re in, it could be like a different like video game character, but just that how how you can have the same exact experience.
And it’s just mediated differently based on people’s like perception of you. And then you could use that just like that joke form there’s there’s something like inherently true within that. And that applies to literally any meme. And then you could plug and play like did you ever do like mad libs? Did you did you have that up in Canada where you put in like the different word or whatever? You can put in your own different word and it still keeps like the same meaning of it, but it could be applied to all these different things. It’s almost like
Like a choose your own adventure like aphorism, like one of those just like, you know, pithy, like inherently true things that can just be applied across anything.
Kenny (02:33.996)
I love that. That’s a great definition. It’s always exciting asking people and seeing which way they sort of take it. but that’s great. Thank you. so you’re a stand up comedian and a video essayist. Can you tell me a bit about how you got here and what inspired you to start making critical long form content? Like was there any one thing?
Jarrett (02:53.592)
So I’ve been a stand-up comedian for a while since I was nineteen. And then I just moved to Texas because my wife got into school here. So it’s kind of starting over a little bit, like within the community. And then also she’s at school like all the time. Like she d works a lot. So then like to go out and do shows every night and like break into the scene. I wasn’t as ambitious about like starting over and like going to like
Kind of the shittier showcases and the open mics again. So I just wanted to do something kind of productive, like during the day, so I could like still see my wife more. And then the Adam Sandler special directed by Josh Safty came out at like the end of 2024. And that was just like one of my favorite specials that like it was so different and creative. And I just had like a lot of thoughts on it. So I’m like, let me just do this in like a video format.
And then that was kind of like the basic like genesis of it. I just wanted it to have I didn’t want to just be like my bedroom and have this kind of like boring background behind me. So I just went out into this like field in like the middle of the night and just had like my car headlights, you know, just to keep it like in like what the fuck is he doing there? And then that was just kind of the blueprint. I’m like, well, well, people kind of like this. And then I just had more thoughts on like a broader, like the Mr. Beast thing was the next one after that. And then I worked on that for like a year, and then that
That one blew up and that was kind of just like proof of concept. It’s like, okay, well, people do like watching these and it does seem like there could be money at some point in continuing to do this. And it’s just like an avenue, because I’m kinda good at a couple things, like music and, you know, a little bit of like the directing and like editing types of things. And I could use like everything that I’m good at into this this one project where I can kind of like showcase all the different little things that I’m decent at.
Kenny (04:46.88)
Nice. Well, that’s awesome. and I’ll get a little bit more into that, or a lot more into that. But kind of like to ask my guests as well, like where they are on the internet, where you find yourself in your recreational time within the space. Because it’s such a large the internet is so vast. where do you find yourself in that?
Jarrett (05:06.734)
I’m definitely not in any sort of like community on the internet. It’s it’s definitely just sort of like voyeuristic and I’m just like popping in on and checking what other people are doing, like, you know, like the looks maxing community or whatever. Like I I don’t like post on like Reddit or have like a Twitter account or anything, but I’ll just see what like is just kinda in the the zeitgeist, like what people are talking about, like what they’re in. And then that’s just kind of like Valley’s kind of been like a
a tourist like socially because my dad was in the military so I just moved around a lot and just you know, different social groups and like different like states and cities and just going in. It doesn’t really feel like I have like a hometown anywhere. And that’s probably true for like the internet as well. Like I don’t really have like a community. I’m just trying to get like a sample of what everybody is talking about. Which is good for stand up too, ‘cause you just kind of be on the pulse of what’s going on and talk to like, you know, fraud swaths of people.
And see if there’s different commonalities between, you know, all these groups.
Kenny (06:10.062)
For sure. That’s how I like to go around the web, sort of poking in, opening doors, and then leaving. I like to do it passively as well. so thank you for sort of laying that groundwork. And so beyond admiring your creative video essays and comedy clips, I asked you to come on Social Sleuth because you’re stopping to think and make sense of what is happening when a lot of people are merely just experiencing it. And so you’re identifying it and making it in an engaging way, like you said, going to a field with your headlights. And so it kind of made me stop and went, This is really cool.
Why is he doing this? He’s obviously putting a lot of time and work into it. You can tell there’s a lot of labor behind it. so like you mentioned your viral video, cultural nihilism and the rise of the grifter, as well as military propaganda and the digital age, those two ones sort of stood out to me in relation to my podcast scope. So to kind of start off with what you do. I wonder if since posting those, what, like nine plus months ago, if anything has come up that has only reinforced those arguments. Anything new to add, I guess.
Jarrett (07:09.178)
on those two videos in particular, there was definitely more stuff about like Mr. Beast’s involvement with like the military. Cause I j I just randomly watched one video and then one of the contestants I think was like a Navy SEAL, and then he was going in like slow motion, going down the rope. They had like this big, like i it very glamorous, like, Whoa, this is the coolest guy. Like if you’re twelve years old, there’s like explosions and like fire going off behind him, just like this, you know.
glistening, just sweaty buff guy, and then he’s like getting all this money and shit. And then somebody just messaged me like, Yeah, I’m in the army, or I can’t remember what branch it was specifically, but he was like, Mr. Beast came to my military base and was like talking to people there. So there is some sort of relationship with him in the military to some extent that that is kind of and it’s like his audience is like 12 years old. So there definitely is like a direct I don’t know
what the compensation could be. I’m not necessarily an investigative journalist to make any accusations, but there definitely is some relationship there with them trying to get in touch with somebody that has such a connection with, you know, eleven and twelve year olds and just painting the military as like there’s a lot. Like there is like several different like, we’re playing hide and seek with the Navy SEALs. And it’s always like the coolest thing ever. Like it’s very one sided.
just kind of reducing them to like action figures of people. So that that was definitely in both of those videos, that was kind of a commonality that was like reinforced.
Kenny (08:45.846)
Yeah. It’s interesting. It’s interesting from this like outside perspective being Canadian, where yes, we have military and we have surveillance and we have all these things that are similar, but the the scope and how much it permeates into society and into social circles is so much more limited. so it’s wild to sort of watch it of like, yeah, they are influencing these children and they are sort of selling these things, whereas in a Canadian context it’s more entertainment value. There is a bit more of a divide.
Jarrett (09:13.08)
D do you have like recruiters like going to your high schools in Canada?
Kenny (09:16.771)
Day there’d be a recruiter, but they’re kind of just sitting in the corner waiting for someone to come up and film
Jarrett (09:21.452)
Yeah, they’re just one of several. It’s not just like military day like they would set up like a pull up bar and then you would do like a a competition to see who could do the most pull ups and then it’s just like, the winner gets to go to Iraq, I guess. Like there’s not really a very good prize. What a prize. It’s like, Wow, you’re strong. Have you thought about joining the navy? Just like, well, when you put it that way.
Kenny (09:42.574)
Yeah, I know you definitely have to seek it out a bit more here. I had even just had my note sort of a a different way, but just desensitizing war in general online with social media. I saw most recently sort of Drank FIFA, all of those memes of having Iran in your country to play soccer and then also bombing them. And I’m not a political commentator, but just the drasticness between those two things and how that is just real life and we’re all sort of just okay with joking about it. that
Topically as well.
Jarrett (10:15.006)
Yeah, it’s definitely intertwined with sports a lot, like all the like the military flyovers at like every football game. They’ll do like honor the troops, like, stand up, this is Private Johnson from the military, waves, he just becomes like a local celebrity, or just even like small things at like the airport, like the soldiers get seated first. And it just g applies like a low level of like celebrity status, just like, no, thank you, thank you. Just walking through, no, no pictures, paparazzi, and then you just sit down on the plane first, and it’s like
That’s kind of a recruitment advertisement. Like if you’re like a seventeen year old that doesn’t know what he wants to do with his life, you’re just sitting there in the terminal and be like, that guy’s kinda cool. He has like a, you know, higher standing in society. I wanna be somebody that gets you know, rewarded.
Kenny (11:00.524)
Absolutely. and then kind of moving from that, speaking about stand-up comedy more generally, is there anything to be said about what I’ve noticed streaming platforms, namely Netflix, going into new ventures with comedy specials, taking over podcasts or bringing on podcasts, and even some of the competition shows? I was kind of relating this to a comment you’d made in one of your videos, with these ideas of icons and nostalgia sort of stagnating things. And I wonder if this
Sort of putting a bunch of money into comedy with your your understanding. Is that a positive, negative? Like where do you kind of see that landing in your observations?
Jarrett (11:38.444)
Well, I definitely think it’s a positive just for somebody that is a stand-up comedian that’s being like platformed and it’s on there. And it’s also kind of like a cheap thing to do for Netflix, like as far as like production value goes, it’s doesn’t cost that much to make a stand-up special. And you’re also coming in with your own audience already. Like Netflix isn’t really giving specials to like unknown people. So it’s kind of just like a surefire bet on their part, just like, well, their fan base is going to watch this.
If they don’t have Netflix, they might subscribe to have Netflix just to support this person that they kind of have like a, you know, ongoing relationship online with just like, I’m a fan of them. I’ll get Netflix to support them, check out the thing, download it. But yeah, it’s it’s always like the streamers and stand up like since like twenty ten, twenty eleven, they were a big success on Netflix. Now all the other ones like Hulu are, you know, trying to keep up with them. They have their own thing.
But yeah. Yeah, I’d say it’s a positive.
Kenny (12:41.09)
Awesome. I would think so. Just thought I would ask if it fed into any more things you’re thinking about. and then not that I don’t want to talk about incels all day, or oversimplify the subculture. but I kind of just wanted to ask you very black and white question. At the end of the day, do you think in cells the culture, the movement, if you will, is objectively dangerous for society?
Jarrett (13:04.214)
I don’t want to say that it is dangerous to not be having sex or not be have like a lot of casual sex or whatever, even waiting like a longer time to have a relationship. I don’t think that part is necessarily what’s like dangerous. But like the Alec Manessian, Elliot Rogers type of like ecosystem and
Then that incel stuff just kind of feeds into like this isolation and like finding these groups online that could just lead to like like there’s a lot of like the the like dehumanizing language, like if you’re saying like Floyd over and over like all day, like that will fuck you up. Like you’re you’re giving yourself like antisocial personality disorders and like really leaning into that. It definitely can end up dangerous. Like there’s a lot of incel like shooters or
Just th there’s like an incel like there’s at least like a a tinge of it, like in a lot of like the recent manifestos, like their thing that they could never find la whatever political, you know, esoteric, you know, Agartha, what whatever racist thing is like they’re saying is the main point. There’s always like a paragraph in there that’s like, by the way, I’m also getting no pussy, fuck women. So it’s like that that definitely is like a contributing factor for a lot of people. Cause
Yeah, if you had a girlfriend, they’re not really big fans of domestic terrorism. Like, you know, my wife would definitely talk me out just like, what if you what if you get into like pickle what if you get into pickleball or something instead? You’re like, All right, we’ll go play pickleball, I guess. I don’t know.
Kenny (14:42.23)
Yeah, I was kind of balancing of, yeah, is this a danger for society or is this, yeah, this mental health crisis for men that find themselves entrenched in this world, I guess? that’s a good distinction. It’s not necessarily the the core of it, but the offshoots and the people that have taken it.
Jarrett (14:59.648)
Yeah, and it’s they’re definitely just like a vulnerable demographic to be like manipulated and groomed into violence. Like you find these groups that support, and then somebody’s like, and then here’s the plan. And then just conspiratorially, like that could be you have no idea who those people are in chat rooms. Like there’s those groups like the like the seven six four cult. It’s kind of like the nihilist violent extremist, is what the FBI classifies them as. And then
I would not be surprised whatsoever if there’s like a foreign government entity like the the KGB or something. Like if you wanted to like destabilize a society, having like random terror attacks and like upping like the tension and like the distrust like among a society and causing more polarization, that would definitely soften up like if you wanted to like hurt a country from the inside. These are just like
powder kegs of guys that have nothing to live for. I would not be surprised whatsoever if like, you know, Russian operatives or, you know, Chinese w whatever is like getting in those groups. Cause we do shit like that all the time with like, you know, starting like rebel groups in like South America. I I d I don’t think we’ve had like an incel platoon, but if we haven’t yet, I mean they’re missing out. They probably could get a lot of mileage out of those guys. And it’s international too. Like a there’s a bunch of different like
incel offshoots like in Italy instead of having like the Chad in the Virgin, they call him Tony. So they all like all all like I was saying out how those like mimetic things, like you could apply it, like they just shape it to their culture so it’s more specific to them. Like the Tony is the big guy in like Italy.
Kenny (16:45.12)
Interesting. Yeah, and even think of sort of the the offshoots of sort of the symptoms of it of if you’re taking it from this conspirac lens of foreign interference of even then, well, women don’t wanna be with these men. Whether they that’s their choice or they’re involuntary, but it creates that divide then. So if you’re thinking of heteronormative, the family unit and those sorts of things, it just keeps sort of rolling and snowballing.
Thanks for entertaining that question. kind of put you on the spot. Is this dangerous or not? moving on, as you’ve identified, platforms promise connection, but frequently deliver echo chambers, offer unpredictable moderation, and often lead to self-censorship. Sort of just like being aware of all of these things, how does that impact how you then present this material? Because you know that there’s algorithms, you know that there’s this self-censorship idea. Obviously, you have your Patreon, so maybe you’re leading people that way to have
This closed loop. Just wonder if that’s something that you’re thinking about when making
Jarrett (17:45.164)
And I’m not sure if Echo Chambers are entirely bad. Cause I the the the next essay that I’m working on, I’m starting to do a little more research and writing on it, is just like debate culture. Like the online like like Jubilee, like going in there. I think like j just to go off on like the debates and then come back to this, like to debate somebody, you need like a
A common goal. It’s like, okay, you’re coming in with your facts and your opinions, you’re coming in with your facts and opinions. And like a debate should be just like, what is the best way to reach this common goal? Like we everybody wants the same thing, but in just the manner to get there could be different. But then what about if people want like an entirely different thing? Like there’s a Jubilee where Medi Hassan was talking to a bunch of like
People that like self identified as like fascists or like white nationalists. And then he wasn’t really sure on what the like he thought they were just kind of normal conservatives, like Trump voters. And then they they were having a debate, and then one of the guys was like, what do you want? He’s like, I want you out of this fucking country. Then it’s like he said, Okay, well, I guess we’re just done here because I don’t debate fascists. And I don’t really think that is running away from the
like the fight or anything, it’s like, well if the end goal is for me to leave, like I’m not gonna debate my humanity with you. Because then then that that puts it up for debate. Like you’re putting the power in their hands just like I’m not gonna tap dance to try to impress you that I am worth, you know, being here or whatever, just like I’m a citizen. So to get back to the question with what I share.
I do want it to come across to like like like in the early essay, the the Mr. Beast one, I was talking about Kat Williams, who’s like one of the best comedians ever. And then he had a joke about if you do a joke about women, you should be doing it like you’re talking to your sisters. If you tell a joke about white people, you should be telling it like you’re telling it to your white friends. Like you want the people that you’re talking to to kind of
Jarrett (20:01.686)
relate to l like the the military essay that I did. Like it it was definitely critical, but then like a lot of veterans liked it and related to it too. And then one guy reached out to me and he runs like a PTSD support group and he wanted to share the video to like some of like the veterans that he worked with. So I definitely want it to be like kind of an all of brand not not like straight up like attacking and tearing people down. I kind of want their
To be like an understanding of where I’m coming from, even to the people that I’m talking about, that to be kind of reachable still. sorry, it’s kinda scattered answer. I wasn’t exactly sure where to go with that
Kenny (20:40.522)
No, absolutely. It was a big question and I think that’s a really good point of if you’re not having the same conversation, why entertain that conversation? And so you’re trying to make it so is open for people not to just disregard you and then leave. So you’re making it palatable. Am I getting what you’re saying?
Jarrett (20:59.692)
Yeah. Yeah. And it’s kinda like like the public town square kind of feels like a failed experiment with like Twitter and like this debate like it became so like one person just trying to like destroy the other side. And that’s also like your job to like to be like a
I don’t know if you’re like a leftist political commentator, like a right-wing political commentator, you’ve built up a fan base of conservatives or leftists, and then it’s like you’re y that’s your audience now. So if you flip and be like, well that guy actually made like a lot of good points there. may maybe he’s right. It’s like, okay, well, this guy sucks at supporting our ideas. So you’re not really
being your you’re y it’s like audience capture. Like you’re just playing to what you know the people that listen to you. You’re just giving them what you want. You’re just like feeding like red meat to like the base. And I don’t know I feel like that can kind of get you in gridlock to get nowhere, like conversationally. It’s like in the in like the early two thousands there were like stand up comedians that had like bits on why gay marriage should be legalized and they’ve been doing this bit for like, you know
ten, fifteen years and then gay marriage is up for election on the ballot. They’re like, fuck, I hope this doesn’t pass. Otherwise I’ll lose my bit. It won’t be relevant anymore. Like I’ll I’ll vote my way out of progress and then I don’t get to be the person advocating for progress anymore. Like that used to just be like this radical take of mine. But then once it actually passes, it’s like, well, now I I I have no purpose. I’ve my my thing has been fulfilled. Like there’s nowhere left to go, which is
Not a good thing, but it’s something to consider, I guess. Just like if you get everything you want, now what happens? Like that was a big thing with like the MAGA movement too. It’s like it they were so much more powerful as underdogs because you could have anything was possible. Like you’re just advocating for not this. Whatever this right now is, we’re we’re offering the opposite of it.
Jarrett (23:10.87)
And now that they’re in power and like none of the things that were promised really manifested to make anybody’s life better. And they go, well, what the fuck even is this movement at this point? It’s ‘cause it used to be just kind of like this countercultural against like the neoliberal, like professional managerial class, like kind of like this snooty, like college educated people like looking down on them. They’re like, Well, fuck those people. This guy’s gonna fight for me. And now he’s so far going the other way and just like kinda catering to like oligarchs and like
Gulf state like monarchies. It’s like, what about what about gas prices? What whatever happened to that is just completely gone? I don’t know.
Kenny (23:50.326)
Yes, it definitely seems where the political landscape is, even internationally speaking. that’s a very good point. switching gears again. we’re deep in twenty twenty six. AI is still flooding feeds, deep fakes, gener generated videos, memes even, some of it visible, invisible to s others. How do you think that that’s impacting the cultural patterns you’re observing? I know you’ve touched on it
a bit throughout some of those video essays if I’m correct. But do you have anything else to say?
Jarrett (24:24.608)
Yeah, w with the AI too, just like having parallel realities are easier than before too. Like there was one what was she? Was she a a judge, maybe? It it was this black woman that got arrested. There was some political thing going on, and she got arrested, and then the post that was going around was AI of her like screaming and like crying, but
In normal in real life, she was like being like handcuffed and like walked to the car. She was just completely like stoic, like stonefaced. But then that didn’t really present the narrative that they wanted. But this like hysterical woman, they’re like, fucking liberal owned, look at they’re all like this, and it’s like you can’t just shape the like what somebody looks like, like making somebody like uglier in like a YouTube thumbnail.
even like the AI of somebody like screaming and crying to make him look weak already just bolsters your point you’re gonna make. Like j just how somebody like like even mi like Zoran Mamdani, like when he was running they made him look like more Arab. They made like his beard darker. They made like his eyes kind of like sunken in more. Like they’ll just slightly tweak this to be like a caricature
Of something that you either have like fear or like disdain for, which is not really reflective of reality, but you’re just kind of shaping it to fit what you need it to fit. Let like there’s a one meme too. It’s like the crying face and then like the Chad. It’s like, it’s too late. I’ve already depicted you as the crying wojack and me as the stoic Aryan Chad or whatever. They’re kind of superimposing that.
on to real life of people like they’re they’re almost like woejacking people but it’s still them but it’s not them and that that’s definitely influences people however subliminally it is like if you’re just seeing like just text and like a picture and then that amplifies whatever the text says just because like looks like they’re like the like the Nixon
Jarrett (26:37.378)
debate to like when people listen to it on the radio, they thought Nixon won. And then the people that watched it on TV thought he because he was like sweaty and like uncomfortable looking. So just changing people’s appearance to serve a narrative, like AI is definitely amplifying a lot and people are abusing that, I think. So that’s probably a danger. And then just also knowing what’s real in fake like people see like a real video of something that happened, they go,
no, that’s AI. It’s just like the complete deni like not trusting anything that you see. And you don’t have like an immediate like gut reaction to things anymore. You’re like, well, let me see if that’s real first before I even feel any type of way about it. And then the news cycle goes so fast there’s ten other things before you could even assess if something is real or not. So like reality itself is just very amorphous and there’s a lot of control over what
reality. I don’t know, there’s there’s just a big fight for reality and AI is definitely confusing that even more, I think.
Kenny (27:45.134)
So and sort of those examples that you brought up made me think too of even just how Photoshop was used for say like celebrity magazines or tabloids to make certain stars look bad and drive like maybe early mid 2000s beauty standards for women and those sorts of tactics. And then AI is coming in and is just able to do that faster, better, and more. so it’s a very very good point. I would agree that that is dangerous.
had a little bit a note there of sort of this social stratification. I also wonder if it’s on your feed or in things that you’re reading, but just the divide between people on that activist side that are anti AI and then people that use AI and how that’s dividing people as well.
Jarrett (28:28.17)
Yeah, I mean there’s there’s like different use cases for it too. Like my wife is in medical school and she uses AI every day just to make like flashcards. Like she’ll just input something from like her textbook or like you know, just a quick way to search like very large documents. Like it it it is useful for things like that. And then I don’t I don’t know. There there’s like a time and a place for a
The thing with like losing like the office jobs to AI, it’s like there are a lot of fucking bullshit jobs. It’s like, do you really have like i is it fulfilling for your life to work in like the claims department for like an insurance thing? It’s like ideally it’s like, yeah, we’d want to automate these bullshit jobs so people have more leisure time or you know, things to pursue more like creative or like human roles in society, but the way that the structure is set up now, it’s like
That money is just still just going to the top. Like whatever time is being saved now, it’s just like, okay, the it doesn’t go back to the people that are losing the jobs. It’s like you don’t get more free time from it. You’re just not in on the operation that like what what was the quote that with like AI art, like it made it so capital had access to art without giving artists the access to capital?
So like somebody that’s like a graphic designer, like if you wanted to do some sort of, you know, commercial work to pay the bills while you’re working on like your passion projects or whatever artistic shit, used to be able to kind of like hone your skills doing like commercial work. Like if you’re a 3D animator animating like the Musinex booger, like the slime, like that does take a lot of work and they do look good. I mean, it’s like shit. It’s just for like a, you know, cold commercial.
But it did give you a way to work on your skills while you’re still getting paid, and then you could do what you wanted to do on the side. Now there’s not it’s going to be less and less of that where you can kind of lease out your talents and build them up while working with a corporation. Now that’s kind of going by the wayside, I think. Or at least they’ll attempt to eliminate that.
Kenny (30:49.126)
A little bit more fun, ‘cause they’ve been asking you some big questions, but a lot of critique around negative social or societal impacts rather, are about normalizing certain behaviors and how that socially conditions people. But I wanna flip it and ask you what we should normalize online in twenty twenty six.
Jarrett (31:07.224)
What we should normalize hmm
Jarrett (31:14.008)
That’s a good question. Do we also do we need to normalize things? Can’t you just be weird anymore? They’re like, it’s also not. We need to normalize this. It’s like, who gives a fuck what anyone else thinks? If you like doing a thing, just do the thing. If people call you like a weirdo freak for it, it’s like, all right, well, to each his own, I guess, you know, just you know, if you like feet, you like feet. We don’t need to normalize feet for somebody to enjoy feet. You could just be a weird guy that likes feet.
Like that doesn’t because normalize implies you want other people to like the thing that you like. I don’t really give a fuck if people like the thing that like I don’t think we need to like normalize stand up comedy or anything. That kinda used to be like a countercultural, transgressive thing. Like if everybody likes it, is it like that exciting anymore? Don’t you want a couple things to be like taboo, I guess? So I w whatever’s normal, it’s like kinda makes it less interesting.
If it’s normal. I I think people should just embrace more abnormal things.
Kenny (32:15.054)
Thank you.
Jarrett (32:17.394)
Yeah, yeah. I I I think that’s a good one. A normalize abnormality. If something’s not normal, you could go, fuck it. I don’t know. I like it. You you don’t need to like it.
Kenny (32:30.306)
That’s fair. Yeah, we’re just normalized minding our own business, perhaps, also works. and then finally, my last question, I did want to ask, because a lot of the conversation around digital space, at least within Canada and academic fields, is to regulate tech companies. This is obviously not perfect in actioning the Canadian liberals who are leading party right now with Mark Carney, they’re pursuing Bill C thirty four, so that’s our Safe Social Media Act. one thing is banning kids under 16 from using social media.
Targets harmful content, there’s penalties, there’s a bunch of other stuff within the bill. I think sort of to preface that, it’s easier for foreign governments to put parameters on international companies, say whether that’s Meta or Google, because they’re in the US, because they’re not at least visibly in bed with our politicians. I think it’s a little bit harder maybe for the US to regulate the companies that are it’s tax base. But I wonder, given your engagement and knowledge, what you make of regulation.
In the space.
Jarrett (33:29.91)
Yeah, so that kinda goes back to the normalizing abnormality and what should be normalized. It’s like what is harmful content? And then it’s like if the government is deciding that, it’s like, well, what things are harmful to the government? Like things maybe like, you know, criticism of Israel could be harmful to the government. Like this is
They’re saying it’s it’s like against our society and values. Something that a lot of people might agree is like a moral thing. The government could be like, well, no, this is what you’re doing is actually dangerous to normalize the dangerous things that they’re doing. Just like, no, what we’re doing is normal. What you’re doing is weird. Like like here, I I I think just a a state recently passed something with like the the the children’s moderation of Facebook.
And then something that was deemed as harmful content was wedding pictures from their gay fathers. So it was a girl that had two gay dads and then they just had like a wedding and they were posting pictures on Instagram and then she wasn’t able to see the wedding pictures from her own family because they said that was like LGBTQ content that was like, you know, promoting sexuality to children. And it wasn’t sexual, it was like
just in an engagement photo. Like it was like two guys together. And then that’s like Taylor Lorenz’s big campaign right now is how much the online child safety act is just something for the government to impose more control over like the internet being like an open place. Because before the internet, the government had a lot more control over the narrative and what people are talking about. There was like the Overton window of what was allowed on like cable television. And then it’s like
Well, this is the liberal guy, this is the conservative. Everything is within the bounds of the things that could be discussed on, you know, television. And then the internet kind of opened up the Overton window on both sides. And I think this is them kind to wrestle that back into their control. Like if something like dangerous content could just mean something that’s like inspiring change. Like I’m sure Martin Luther King would be dangerous content.
Jarrett (35:52.416)
in the 60s. Like Malcolm X is like, this is a dangerous radical. He’s a terrorist. We don’t support this. This goes against. And then how that could have like stifled like the civil rights movement if they were more so online as opposed to in the streets, like the government could like crack down on that. So I I I’m against the government e even saying for like kids’ online safety, it’s like I don’t believe you. I genuinely don’t think you care about children’s safety.
Children are always just the thing that is used to push any any policy, like a a crying child or a hurt child or a sad child. Like they had like I don’t know the specifics of it, but it was like the the Lakin Riley Act. I think that was a girl that was killed by somebody that was like an illegal immigrant, and then it’s like, do you actually care about the children’s, or is this like a a golden goose just fell in your lap? Just like, we wanted this anti-immigrant.
policy pushed through, but now we could put that through the lens of children’s safety. Because that is the most unifying thing on earth is children’s safety. No literally nobody would be against children’s safety. So that is just a catch-all. Anything that happens is through the lens of children’s safety, which we all want, but I think they have ulterior motives. Like things with like the the pornography
Too like in Texas that like they banned a lot of things like Pornhub because they made it so you had to like submit your driver’s license and your ID. And then that just opens up so many things. Like whatever porn you’re listening to or watching is like connected to your government ID. And like, what if somebody hacks into that website, which is not an unheard of thing? And it’s like, okay, so now we know like this congressman that had to put in his driver’s license to watch.
Whatever freak shit congressmen are watching on Pornhub, whatever Marco Rubio could be into. God, I don’t even want to know. Now these hackers could have like, you know, Compromont. They have like blackmail material on people because your driver’s license is into whatever weird foam party foot sex you’re into. So I I do think it it’s dangerous I would prefer if it was open and anonymous still. Yeah.
Kenny (38:13.134)
Absolutely. And that’s why like to bring it up as well, because I think, like you said, it’s being sold on safety. It’s being promoted for for children. It’s for everybody. and I would agree that it’s it’s not it is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. And just to even just expand on the under sixteen ban, kids are gonna lie about that. They’re gonna circumnavigate that. Or they’re gonna turn seventeen and then have open access to the internet with no sort of conditioning of how to do it, and then they’re just a little bit older.
Jarrett (38:45.242)
And and the internet also gives you like a lot of freedom too to find like different communities. Maybe if you grew up in more of like maybe like an oppressive like religious household and then you’re in like a small town and don’t have anybody to like you’re an abnormal person, maybe you’re gay, whatever, being able to find these people be like, no, you’re actually not possessed by the devil. You’re like a normal guy. There’s other people like you too.
You could be in this closed ecosystem, but then the, you know, the internet could open you up to other communities or new things that you could relate to and you could learn new information that might be kind of suppressed by your family or whatever. But yeah, I I I don’t but then there’s the the flip side of that too, with like the incel guys getting into like Terragram. Like you could be, you know, there there’s like they’re getting younger and younger with like the incel
Killers. I think there was like a twelve year old that identified as an insel and went on like a stabbing spree. Like they killed somebody and it’s like, you’re twelve. Like you should no d 12 year olds shouldn’t be having sex, but they’re like, girls don’t I the other other boys and girls are holding hands. I I’m hand holdless. I’m a a kissless ver. It’s like and that they could be driven to like mimetic psychosis getting into the wrong group. So I I guess it’s like double-edged sword.
on I mean it’s just it could be anything. Like it could be good, it could be bad, and I don’t know. I j I just inherently have a distrust of the government to be the person to tell you what is good and bad. Pro like I don’t know how realistic parental supervision is either. Like I’d like if if my kid had a cell phone, I like you could have like screen time locks, but j just the the amount of things on the internet to even know
what to block. Like different groups on like Telegram or whatever that they could be getting into, like that you don’t even think about, like apps that you’ve never even heard of. So to try to keep that within the bounds and like corral the I think it’s just going to happen. I I don’t know. It’s th that’s why there is like a compelling argument from the politicians too. It’s like there are anecdotal examples and like use cases of why it should be more regulated. But then
Jarrett (41:09.578)
their own interest on what they should regulate is probably not the same as what child safety actually is. So Yeah, it’s kinda hard, but I I would lean towards just kinda leaving it open.
Kenny (41:24.238)
Yeah, the government track record is is not there for making those distinctions. well thank you for entertaining that question as well. how I like to end my episode is to give my guests the final words. Something we talked about, something we didn’t talk about. It’s your soapbox.
Jarrett (41:40.414)
Mm. Okay. So we were talking just about a lot of the censorship online and the different
You know what was fun with the online? This is something that I put in my videos too. Like having the clips playing on like physical screens and TVs. That was something too that deliberately wanted to do to bring the like internet into the real world. Like I had that computer on like the Riverwalk. It’s like a busy like tourist area. And it was just like clavicular on the Fresh and Fit podcast. And I did want it to
stand out like to have people walking in the background. Like it feels like it’s an internet thing and it’s sequestered to the internet, but it very much does permeate like the real world and it kind of infiltrates the real world and how like jarring that would be. Like if that was just like on a TV and like families. Like like if the Fresh and Fit podcast was playing at like a restaurant and your kid was there, you’d be like, what the fuck is this sh a and if like a kid was like resonating well like it it like it’s the internet is not not the real world.
Like like if you’re acting on like Twitter or whatever and like you’re saying something goes, no, it’s not real. It’s like it kinda is because it goes to somebody else, it influences their day. It’s just it’s it’s more real than I think people would like to pretend that it is. Like it’s almost this like alternate personality, but at what at what point does that become your real personality and how much is it like
What percent of your day are you being the real you? And then it’s like, what percent are you the like there’s people that have a majority of their social interaction online. So it’s like, which one is the real you? Like you have all these unfiltered thoughts, but then in real life, you may not be wanting to express your real thoughts. You can kind of be putting on more of a fake person. Like you’re online, you can almost be more of a real person than you are. So to like
Jarrett (43:41.352)
really embrace just like the antisocial behavior on there. I don’t think it’s really recreational. I d I do think that is kind of real life and what you’re doing, you know, all day on like whatever burner accounts will start to influence how you behave in real life. Like I was reading some post, it was like a girl in high school and like a group of boys were like walking by and they just started like pointing at her and chanting like Floyd.
Like that’s like a super online thing, but it’s like that that probably bothered her a lot. I mean, that that is like a mean thing to do to somebody. And then you just think it’s like this like me like whatever layer of irony, like you think you’re being ironic, but it’s like the person on the receiving end could not be interpreting that as irony. Like, th there’s this thing in the Sopranos.
Where people think that Tony fucked Christopher’s girlfriend and then he didn’t. It didn’t end up being what happened. They just got into a car accident or whatever. And then Christopher was like, well, people think that they do, so you might as well have done it. Because like people’s perception is almost more important than the truth, what actually happened. Like what people collectively think is almost more real. I’m kind of really
Going off the rails, kinda rambling here. I don’t know if what I’m saying makes any at all. Yeah, I don’t I don’t know if that makes any sense. But but like like on Twitter, like if you’re sharing like a bunch of like facts or like things that are like AI generated and like the things that you’re just pushing out constantly, that’s even if it’s not true, it’s shaping a narrative and the untrue nature of the things that you’re sharing might as well be true because the people listening to it
Kenny (45:06.454)
Your soapbox, man. Do it.
Jarrett (45:32.48)
are interpreting it as so and then like going into the real world and like doing the it it’s the whole th the the whole internet real life the schizophrenic fracture is I don’t know, we reality just feels very shaky right now. Yeah, I’m not sure if I’m able to put a bow on that, but that was just kind of, you know.
Kenny (45:52.322)
Made sense to me. It’s your truth. I think you can definitely see that I I agree. It’s hard to sort of make sense of that. And there was something that you said
Jarrett (46:01.378)
But that’s interesting that you said that’s your truth. Do you do you believe in that, that people have individual truths as opposed to like the truth?
Kenny (46:09.294)
Well, sort of thinking about I’ll I’ll circle back to that, but thinking about how you’re saying the sorry, the video and the difference with the AI and making people look different and how that changes the perception of when you’re sending a tweet, you’re removing sort of your context of who you are. Whether that’s real online or not is up to the people that are reading that tweet, but you’re sort of cutting off that one section and it just becomes the internet’s.
Jarrett (46:35.404)
Yeah, there’s a early thing, like a early Louis C. K. joke, and he was talking about how people interact online and he’s like, you know, kids are shitty. So like when you’re in middle school, you kind of try out being mean to people just to see how it feels. And it’s like you say like a really cutting thing to somebody, and then you see their face like scrunch up, you go, Ugh, and then it gives you like a bad feeling in your stomach. You go, I I actually don’t like I don’t like making people feel that way, but with the screen, you don’t get to see their face.
like that. You could see like I don’t know, just the all caps, you’re like, Ooh, I really got going. I got him mad right there and then it’s like but you’re not actually it’s not sinking in that it’s like you you made somebody feel you you don’t feel the bad feelings that they’re feeling with the thing that you’re doing. I don’t know.
Kenny (47:24.15)
Yes, to answer your question, yeah, I think people can have their individual truths, but to your point, the perception can negate that. Like it’s not a fixed thing. We live in a a society with different like the social interactions and the dynamics between people. that doesn’t have a bell on it either, not a solved answer for me.
Jarrett (47:46.678)
Yeah, yeah. I I was thinking something that I want to put in the debate essay too, with people trying to come to like people coming from opposite ends of ideology and like information input and then trying to agree or even like argue to like what is the right thing to do. You’re getting your opinions and your facts intertwined with each other at the same time.
Like a lot of people get their news from somebody watching the news. Like you’ll be watching like a Twitch streamer and seeing them in real time interpret the news. And then that’s just another layer to it. But then the news itself, it’s like, you know, Fox versus CNN versus MSNBC. As they’re reporting the news, they’re giving you their opinion in between report. It’s not even like this is what’s happened and then we’re gonna discuss it in the second half.
It’s like the way it’s framed, the words that they use, it’s already infusing an opinion into the instance. So to have people from two different sides debating and they’re getting different information inputs, it would be like if you’re having like a potluck and then you’re deciding on what side dish to bring. And it’s like the the facts, the information, the story should be like the flower.
And then the person that’s reporting it is adding in a secondary thing. It’s like, you add in sugar right here. So the flour and the sugar, you have cake mix. And then this guy over here, he has like you know, lye. So he made pretzels. So it’s like, what should we have for a side dish? And then this guy’s like, nacho cheese. And then the other guy’s like, you fucking idiot, you don’t put nacho cheese on a birthday cake, and it’s like, no, you dumbass, why would you put sprinkles on a pretzel?
You’re you’re an idiot. You’re a mor those those those things don’t go together at all because you’ve already you’ve already manipulated the flower so that you could only come to one conclusion with what you’ve been given. It’s like, well, it’s obvious that mustard goes on a pretzel. If you try to do your solution, it would be too sweet it’d be disgusting. So you’re getting these two different inputs of the pre baked like precursor to an opinion and then
Jarrett (50:00.6)
to try to come to a commonality with some you you might have a little bit of the same facts, but it’s been already manipulated and morphed so much that there’s just you can only come to one conclusion and you’ll never reach an agreement if you only get one side of the recipe.
Kenny (50:21.782)
That makes sense to me. Yeah. I think my my only last thing for my my thought there is that yeah, multiple things can be true as well. at any given time. but yeah. I took over your soapbox. I buttted in. That was supposed to be your final but thank you.
Jarrett (50:39.2)
That’s fine.
Kenny (50:42.222)
Thank you, Jarrett, for running with my questions and offering myself and my listeners some food for thought. I encourage you to check out more from Jarrett, be that on YouTube or on his Patreon. As for me, you can find me on Substack at KennyC402, and you can find this podcast, Social Sleuth, wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening. Keep sleuthing.
